Comments on: Children, Oxen, Asses, and Cribs

By: What Was the Donkey Doing in Its Master’s Crib? | Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament

Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:06:38 +0000

[...] few days ago, I was reading Joel Hoffman’s post on Isaiah 1:3 at God Didn’t Say That and something he wrote called my [...]

By: Cats and Dogs in the Old Testament | Dr. Claude Mariottini – Professor of Old Testament

Sat, 28 May 2011 17:53:48 +0000

[...] In the present post, I want to discuss Joel Hoffman’s post on Isaiah 1:3 at God Didn’t Say That. [...]

By: What Was the Donkey Doing in Its Master’s Crib? | Dr. Claude Mariottini – Professor of Old Testament

Mon, 18 Apr 2011 19:40:43 +0000

[...] few days ago, I was reading Joel Hoffman’s post on Isaiah 1:3 at God Didn’t Say That and something he wrote called my [...]

By: Top Translation Traps: Dependence on the Dictionary « God Didn't Say That

Top Translation Traps: Dependence on the Dictionary « God Didn't Say That — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:24:17 +0000

[...] I complained that the combination of “children … crib” in Isaiah makes me think of children [...]

By: Bob MacDonald

Bob MacDonald — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:58:57 +0000

It’s fine a far as it goes
but the rest of the verse is needed with the ellipses unstated

Israel does not know
my people do not consider/understand

So know is elided in the first half of the verse and the objects of the verbs are elided from verse 3a to 3b

v1 s1a o1a
(v) s1b o-o1b
s2a v1 (o2a?)
s2b v2 (o2b?)

the poem must leave the elisions in place

I wonder if you might say more on the word order. In English poetry we do reverse s-v-o sometimes – but in this case it is awkward. I suspect we are losing something in the emphasis.

Knows ox his owner and donkey his master’s crib
Israel knows not, my people does not consider

The but is also not required (as in various languages)
I prefer his to its for animals. In this case I think there may be specific words for the female animals.

By: Joel

Joel — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:26:40 +0000

Do you think that “The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master’s crib” captures the poetry?

By: Bob MacDonald

Bob MacDonald — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:09:26 +0000

Dog and cat :ROF’L

The point or the poetry – you can guess what I will say – the poetry of course. God will have no trouble delivering the point if the translator keeps the poetry.