Comments on: How Many Women is One Woman in 1 Timothy 2:12?

By: Joel H.

Joel H. — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:43:21 +0000

Yes, Bill, “without nouns.” Thanks.

What intrigues me most is the shift from plural to singular (2:10/11) and then back to plural again (2:15a/b). I’m also starting to think about the singulars in 3:1ff.

I agree that this is the most interesting part, and I hope I’ll find time this week to take a closer look at what might be going on. I do know that in the OT, it’s common to find a speech to a group of people in which the second-person verbs alternate between singular and plural.

By: Bill

Bill — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:36:22 +0000

Thanks, Joel. (I’ll assume you meant to type “nouns without articles”.)

What intrigues me most is the shift from plural to singular (2:10/11) and then back to plural again (2:15a/b). I’m also starting to think about the singulars in 3:1ff.

If you’re still interested, part 4 posted today, Parts 5, 6, & 7 post M/T/W next week, and Th/Fr next should see two separate posts reconstructing more context from one likely Pauline Chronology.

In Greek, I admit I am weak. My passion is Story. Maybe this will only lead one of us or someone else to uncover something more helpful, eventually. We live in hope.

Thanks again for your feedback so far…

By: Joel H.

Joel H. — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:58:17 +0000

Bill,

You are right. “The way” is a little too restrictive, and surely there were other ways to express a situation about one woman and one man, but my best guess is that nouns with articles wasn’t one of them.

I did take a look at parts 2 and 3 of your discussion — intriguing observations.

By: Gary Simmons

Gary Simmons — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:23:23 +0000

Joel, I just can’t shake the idea that gyne and aner are being used qualitatively: “let woman learn… for I do not permit woman… over man.” Although indefinite nouns are more common than qualitative, that’s what I see here. Especially with the reference to the prototypical man and prototypical woman. Also feeding that hunch is the switch to plural in 15: “if they continue…”

By: Bill

Bill — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:57:18 +0000

Dr. Hoffman, do you really mean “the”? In your statement, “So it seems that the way to say…”, shouldn’t you qualify that a bit more? Or was there really only one way to express such a thought in Greek?

I am deeply honored, of course, by your comments. Even if Einstein was right that “imagination is more important than knowledge”, I’m certainly under no illusions that creative thought is everything.

If you want to ride out the rest of my thoughts, I’ve got a few more posts scheduled at my blog. Thanks again for the kind words and attention.

By: bibleshockers

bibleshockers — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:42:37 +0000

My thinking on man/husband and woman/wife is that it is better translated consistently as man or woman, with a footnote that a husband is “one’s man” and a wife is “one’s woman.”

By: bibleshockers

bibleshockers — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:41:10 +0000

Is there any ambiguity about whether or not this is saying any this?

“wife teach a husband”

When she gets home, she is to “ask her husband” (AFTER she folds the clothes, of course).

1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

By the way, I recently read that 1 Cor 14:34-35 are highly suspect as late additions. Is that widely accepted as evident by most here?