<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Q&amp;A: Who is the Wonderful Counselor?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/16/q-and-a-who-is-the-wonderful-counselor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/16/q-and-a-who-is-the-wonderful-counselor/</link>
	<description>Bible Translations and Mistranslations</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 19:16:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Moeller</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/16/q-and-a-who-is-the-wonderful-counselor/#comment-1379</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Moeller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goddidntsaythat.com/?p=1689#comment-1379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He who (counsels/advises) (with/through) wonders is a ... give me a title here...

Counselor by wonders?

Wonder filled advisor?

This is hard to speak of yet magnificent in the understanding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He who (counsels/advises) (with/through) wonders is a &#8230; give me a title here&#8230;</p>
<p>Counselor by wonders?</p>
<p>Wonder filled advisor?</p>
<p>This is hard to speak of yet magnificent in the understanding.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joel H.</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/16/q-and-a-who-is-the-wonderful-counselor/#comment-1376</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joel H.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goddidntsaythat.com/?p=1689#comment-1376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been trying to figure out how we might know how early Christians understood the Hebrew.  (We know how they understood the passage in general.)

You&#039;re right that the LXX doesn&#039;t match up with the Hebrew closely enough to use that source as guidance, though the mismatch potentially tells us that even back then there was some confusion over the line.

The DSS quote the line in 1QM 11:10 (which Sukenik numbered 3:10).  Starting in 11:8, &quot;...For children come through the [sea-]breakers of death [9] and a women pregnant with a boy is racked by her pangs, for through the breakers of death she gives birth to a male and through the pangs of Sheol emerges [10] from the crucible of the pregnant woman &lt;B&gt;a wonder couselor with his might&lt;/b&gt; &lt;I&gt;[peleh yo&#039;eitz im g&#039;vurato]&lt;/i&gt; and the boy is freed from the breakers....&quot;

But, again --- though it&#039;s interesting --- I&#039;m not sure how it helps.

I think Jerome specifically claimed there were six titles given here to the Lord, but I don&#039;t have details.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been trying to figure out how we might know how early Christians understood the Hebrew.  (We know how they understood the passage in general.)</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that the LXX doesn&#8217;t match up with the Hebrew closely enough to use that source as guidance, though the mismatch potentially tells us that even back then there was some confusion over the line.</p>
<p>The DSS quote the line in 1QM 11:10 (which Sukenik numbered 3:10).  Starting in 11:8, &#8220;&#8230;For children come through the [sea-]breakers of death [9] and a women pregnant with a boy is racked by her pangs, for through the breakers of death she gives birth to a male and through the pangs of Sheol emerges [10] from the crucible of the pregnant woman <b>a wonder couselor with his might</b> <i>[peleh yo'eitz im g'vurato]</i> and the boy is freed from the breakers&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, again &#8212; though it&#8217;s interesting &#8212; I&#8217;m not sure how it helps.</p>
<p>I think Jerome specifically claimed there were six titles given here to the Lord, but I don&#8217;t have details.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Simmons</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/16/q-and-a-who-is-the-wonderful-counselor/#comment-1374</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Simmons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goddidntsaythat.com/?p=1689#comment-1374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Brilliant sage&quot;? Better yet: exalted sage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Brilliant sage&#8221;? Better yet: exalted sage.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WoundedEgo</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/16/q-and-a-who-is-the-wonderful-counselor/#comment-1371</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WoundedEgo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goddidntsaythat.com/?p=1689#comment-1371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s another illustration:

Joh 7:43  So there was a division among the people because of him. 
Joh 7:44  And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him. 
Joh 7:45  Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? 
Joh 7:46  The officers answered, Never man spake like th]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another illustration:</p>
<p>Joh 7:43  So there was a division among the people because of him.<br />
Joh 7:44  And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him.<br />
Joh 7:45  Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?<br />
Joh 7:46  The officers answered, Never man spake like th</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WoundedEgo</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/16/q-and-a-who-is-the-wonderful-counselor/#comment-1370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WoundedEgo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goddidntsaythat.com/?p=1689#comment-1370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many thanks for this. It is much more helpful to follow along on the journey than to get &quot;the answer.&quot;

I wonder if, in line with your &quot;who he is, rather than what he does&quot; slant, his &quot;counsel&quot; is not what he gives to others but what he has available to himself. That is, he makes decisions based on a bottomless understanding. In other words, he is one who has awesome [in the non-trivial meaning] insight. When he says something in a group, he gets reactions like this:

Luk 4:22  And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph&#039;s son? 

Honestly, Joel, I feel a bit of that wonder myself when you seem to peg some of these thorny texts so insightfully. Now, don&#039;t let that go to your head, but you really seem to have a unique gift. And to be honest, I think it is because the rest of us are just dumb!

Here&#039;s another possible allusion:

Mat 7:28  And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 
Mat 7:29  For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for this. It is much more helpful to follow along on the journey than to get &#8220;the answer.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wonder if, in line with your &#8220;who he is, rather than what he does&#8221; slant, his &#8220;counsel&#8221; is not what he gives to others but what he has available to himself. That is, he makes decisions based on a bottomless understanding. In other words, he is one who has awesome [in the non-trivial meaning] insight. When he says something in a group, he gets reactions like this:</p>
<p>Luk 4:22  And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph&#8217;s son? </p>
<p>Honestly, Joel, I feel a bit of that wonder myself when you seem to peg some of these thorny texts so insightfully. Now, don&#8217;t let that go to your head, but you really seem to have a unique gift. And to be honest, I think it is because the rest of us are just dumb!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another possible allusion:</p>
<p>Mat 7:28  And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:<br />
Mat 7:29  For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2010/02/16/q-and-a-who-is-the-wonderful-counselor/#comment-1367</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goddidntsaythat.com/?p=1689#comment-1367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the early Christians understood it to refer to Christ (although that might be difficult to ascertain given that Justin used the LXX which has a different wording?) then could the &#039;wonder&#039; part be linked to the &#039;wonder&#039; of the Virgin Birth while &#039;counselor/knower&#039; become linked to either Comfortor or perhaps along the lines of Wisdom?

(Trying to keep from theology here, only to see how it might have moved early Christians into theological directions.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the early Christians understood it to refer to Christ (although that might be difficult to ascertain given that Justin used the LXX which has a different wording?) then could the &#8216;wonder&#8217; part be linked to the &#8216;wonder&#8217; of the Virgin Birth while &#8216;counselor/knower&#8217; become linked to either Comfortor or perhaps along the lines of Wisdom?</p>
<p>(Trying to keep from theology here, only to see how it might have moved early Christians into theological directions.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

