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	<title>God Didn&#039;t Say That</title>
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		<title>The Hidden Message of Redemption in Hosea</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/17/the-hidden-message-of-redemption-in-hosea/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/17/the-hidden-message-of-redemption-in-hosea/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 17:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[translation practice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hosea]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hosea 2:23]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hosea 2:25]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[In English, Hosea 2:23 (also numbered 2:25) seems bland: &#8220;And I will have pity on Lo-ruhamah, and I will say to Lo-ammi, &#8216;You are my people&#8217;; and he shall say, &#8216;You are my God&#8217;&#8221; (NRSV). But as I just pointed out, the names &#8220;Lo-ruhamah&#8221; and &#8220;Lo-ammi,&#8221; Hosea&#8217;s children, mean &#8220;unloved&#8221; and &#8220;not my people,&#8221; respectively. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3364&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In English, Hosea 2:23 (also numbered 2:25) seems bland:  &#8220;And I will have pity on Lo-ruhamah, and I will say to Lo-ammi, &#8216;You are my people&#8217;; and he shall say, &#8216;You are my God&#8217;&#8221; (NRSV).</p>
<p>But as I <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/09/disaster-unloved-and-unwanted-hoseas-children/">just pointed out</a>, the names &#8220;Lo-ruhamah&#8221; and &#8220;Lo-ammi,&#8221; Hosea&#8217;s children, mean &#8220;unloved&#8221; and &#8220;not my people,&#8221; respectively.  So what we really have here is this:  &#8220;I will <b>love</b> <I>[RiCHaM]</i> <b>Unloved</b> <i>[lo-RuCHaMa]</i> and I will say to <b>Not-My-People</b> <I>[lo-ammi],</i> <b>&#8220;You are My people&#8221;</b> <i>[ammi-atah],</i> and he will say, &#8220;My God.&#8221;  (I&#8217;ve put the consonants of the root R.Ch.M in upper case to highlight the close connection between the verb &#8220;loved&#8221; <I>[RiCHaM]</i> and the name &#8220;Unloved&#8221; <I>[lo-RuCHaMa]</i> in Hebrew, in which consonants are more important than vowels.)</p>
<p>In other words, Hosea 2:23 is a complete reversal.  Whereas before we had &#8220;Unloved,&#8221; now we have &#8220;love.&#8221;  Instead of &#8220;Not My People&#8221; we have &#8220;my people.&#8221; God has forgiven both of Hosea&#8217;s children (who represent all of God&#8217;s children &#8212; more on this soon, I hope), and it is then that God is called &#8220;my God.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an uplifting hope for redemption, an interesting theological position, and beautiful poetry.  Unfortunately, it seems to me that in not translating the names, most translations hide the biblical message.</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>On the Historical Adam</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/11/on-the-historical-adam/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/11/on-the-historical-adam/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 14:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Off Topic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dr. Albert Mohler]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Herodotus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[historical Adam]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Josephus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paul]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[science]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve posted some thoughts about how modernity and science interact with the historical Adam: &#8220;The Apostle Paul did not Believe in the Historical Adam&#8221; A debate has been raging about whether Adam was an historical figure. I think it&#8217;s important, because it represents a more general debate about how to live a modern religious life. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3332&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve posted some <a href="http://blog.joelmhoffman.com/2012/05/10/the-apostle-paul-did-not-believe-in-the-historical-adam/">thoughts</a> about how modernity and science interact with the historical Adam:</p>
<blockquote><p>
<b>&#8220;The Apostle Paul did not Believe in the Historical Adam&#8221;</b></p>
<p>A debate has been raging about whether Adam was an historical figure. I think it&#8217;s important, because it represents a more general debate about how to live a modern religious life. I also think it highlights a fundamental misunderstanding.<br />
<a href="http://blog.joelmhoffman.com/2012/05/10/the-apostle-paul-did-not-believe-in-the-historical-adam/"><I>keep reading&#8230;</i></a>
</p></blockquote>
<p>Even though it&#8217;s slightly off-topic, I&#8217;m reposting the link, because I&#8217;d love feedback from readers here.</p>
<p>Read the whole thing here:  &#8220;<a href="http://blog.joelmhoffman.com/2012/05/10/the-apostle-paul-did-not-believe-in-the-historical-adam/">The Apostle Paul did not Believe in the Historical Adam</a>.&#8221;</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>Disaster, Unloved, and Unwanted:  Hosea&#8217;s Children</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/09/disaster-unloved-and-unwanted-hoseas-children/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/09/disaster-unloved-and-unwanted-hoseas-children/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 18:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[translation practice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[CEB]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hosea]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Isiah 7:14]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LXX]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Matthew 1:23]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NIV]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NRSV]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[The prophet Hosea, we read, has three children, named yizrael, lo-ruchama, and lo-ammi in Hebrew, but in Greek their names are Yezrael, Ouk-Ileimeni, and Ou-Laos-Mou. What&#8217;s going on? Normally Greek names are simple transliterations of the Hebrew sounds. The answer is that the second two Hebrew names are actually phrases that mean &#8220;not loved&#8221; and [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3315&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The prophet Hosea, we read, has three children, named <i>yizrael,</i> <i>lo-ruchama,</i> and <i>lo-ammi</i> in Hebrew, but in Greek their names are <i>Yezrael,</i> <i>Ouk-Ileimeni,</i> and <i>Ou-Laos-Mou.</i>  What&#8217;s going on?  Normally Greek names are simple transliterations of the Hebrew sounds.</p>
<p>The answer is that the second two Hebrew names are actually phrases that mean &#8220;not loved&#8221; and &#8220;not my people,&#8221; respectively.  The Greek translates the meaning of the words, rather than preserving the sounds. <i>Ouk-Ileimeni</i> means &#8220;not-loved&#8221; and <i>Ou-Laos-Mou</i> means &#8220;not-people-mine.&#8221;  The first name, Jezreel in English, is taken from the disaster at the Jezreel valley &#8212; vaguely similar would be living in New Orleans and calling your daughter &#8220;Katrina&#8221; &#8212; and because that&#8217;s a place, not just a word, the Greek transliterates the sounds.</p>
<p>English translations, though, usually ignore what the words mean, as in the NRSV&#8217;s Jezreel, Lo-ruhamah, and Lo-ammi.  The CEB and others take a different route, with Jezreel, No Compassion, and Not My People.</p>
<p>Some translations walk a middle ground, as in the latest NIV, which gives us, &#8220;Lo-Ruhamah (which means &#8216;not loved&#8217;)&#8221; and &#8220;Lo-Ammi (which means &#8216;not my people&#8217;),&#8221; explaining things for the English reader.</p>
<p>Though this is perhaps the most extreme example of names that are words or phrases, it&#8217;s not the only one.  The famous passage in Isaiah 7:14 has a kid whose name is <i>emmanuel,</i> which means &#8220;God is with us.&#8221;  When the name appears in Isaiah, it remains untranslated in English, though many versions provide a footnote with an explanation of the name.  But when Matthew (in 1:23) cites the verse, he adds, &#8220;&#8230;which translates as &#8216;God is with us.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>What should we do with these names in English translations?  Certainly a story about &#8220;Jezreel, Lo-ruhamah, and Lo-ammi&#8221; paints a markedly different picture than one about, say, &#8220;Disaster, Unloved, and Unwanted.&#8221; Does it do the narrative justice if we strip it of the jarring names &#8220;Unloved&#8221; and &#8220;Unwanted&#8221;?</p>
<p>Is turning &#8220;Jezreel&#8221; into &#8220;Disaster&#8221; going too far?  What about a translation that calls <i>yizrael</i> &#8220;Gettysburg,&#8221; which, like the Valley of Jezreel, was the site of bloodshed?  Should we respect the fact that Hosea has one kid named after a place and two with phrases for names?</p>
<p>And what about Emmanuel?  If we translate <i>lo-ruchamma</i> as &#8220;Unloved,&#8221; shouldn&#8217;t Emmanuel be &#8220;God-Is-With-Us?&#8221;</p>
<p>What do you think?  How would you translate Hosea&#8217;s kids, Isaiah 7:14, and Matthew 1:23?</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>I&#8217;m Back, for a Bit</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/09/im-back-for-a-bit/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/05/09/im-back-for-a-bit/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 14:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[meta]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Off Topic]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[A while ago my laptop crashed, the result of a virus. My first repair attempt went like this: Boot Windows XP from the Installation CD. Windows: &#8220;Windows is examining your hardware &#8230; Press &#8216;R&#8217; to repair Windows.&#8221; Me: &#8220;R&#8221; Windows: &#8220;Insert repair disk into floppy drive.&#8221; I don&#8217;t have a floppy drive. Good job examining [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3319&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A while ago my laptop crashed, the result of a virus.</p>
<p>My first repair attempt went like this:</p>
<ol>
<li> Boot Windows XP from the Installation CD.
<li> <b>Windows:</b> &#8220;Windows is examining your hardware &#8230; Press &#8216;R&#8217; to repair Windows.&#8221;
<li> <b>Me:</b> &#8220;R&#8221;
<li> <b>Windows:</b> &#8220;Insert repair disk into floppy drive.&#8221;
</ol>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a floppy drive. Good job examining the hardware, Windows.</p>
<div style="width:30%;float:right;font-size:144%;padding:10px;">&#8220;If Windows made cars, you&#8217;d be driving from NY to LA, and somewhere around the Rockies the radio would stop working, and you&#8217;d be asked to turn the car off and on again. And when you did, you&#8217;d be back in NY.&#8221;</div>
<p>On one hand, I&#8217;m lucky, because I use a different computer for writing, so I didn&#8217;t lose anything important.  I only use the laptop for three things:  to connect to my main computer when I travel; for <a href="http://www.bibleworks.com/">Bibleworks</a>, which is an indispensable Bible research tool; and for Web-intensive applications, like WordPress.  But when the virus hit, I lost those three.</p>
<p>In spite of a background in Computer Science (from my year doing graduate work at the Technion in Israel), I didn&#8217;t have the inclination or the patience to reinstall Windows, but I was left with little choice, because I need Windows XP (which they don&#8217;t sell any more) and I didn&#8217;t want to give up the unlimited data plan that comes with my internal Verizon data card.</p>
<p>Fortunately, I have the installation disks, including the Windows CD and Dell&#8217;s supplemental disks.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, simply following the instructions doesn&#8217;t work.  (It never does.)<br />
One particularly frustrating moment came when the newly installed Windows couldn&#8217;t find the Ethernet driver.  &#8220;Do you want to connect to the Internet to find a driver?&#8221; Windows asked.</p>
<p>At any rate, the computer mostly works now.  It still gives an error message every time it boots.  Oddly, I can&#8217;t view PDF files, because installation of Adobe&#8217;s Acrobat Reader fails with a &#8220;general error.&#8221;   And there are other quirks.  But it works.</p>
<p>Still, between a crippled computer, lots of travel, and even more writing, I&#8217;ve been away from this blog for too long.  I&#8217;m back now, for a bit, on and off, until things calm down.</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>How to be a Biblical Man</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/03/02/how-to-be-a-biblical-man/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/03/02/how-to-be-a-biblical-man/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[translation practice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[1 Corinthians 16:13]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gender]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[The ESV translation of 1 Corinthians 16:13 has Paul tell his audience to &#8220;act like men.&#8221; This tradition of translation goes back at least as far as the KJV, which renders the text &#8220;[behave] like men.&#8221; The NRSV, on the other hand, offers &#8220;be courageous.&#8221; What&#8217;s going on? At issue is the Greek verb andrizomai. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3300&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ESV translation of 1 Corinthians 16:13 has Paul tell his audience to &#8220;act like men.&#8221;  This tradition of translation goes back at least as far as the KJV, which renders the text &#8220;[behave] like men.&#8221;  The NRSV, on the other hand, offers &#8220;be courageous.&#8221;  What&#8217;s going on?</p>
<p>At issue is the Greek verb <i>andrizomai.</i> That word contains the root <i>andr,</i> which also gives us the word <i>aner,</i> &#8220;man.&#8221;  (The &#8220;d&#8221; drops in and out, in accordance with Greek grammar.  <I>Aner</i> is a &#8220;man,&#8221; and <i>adres</i> are &#8220;men,&#8221; for example.)</p>
<p>But the leap from the root <i>andr</i> to the translation &#8220;act like men&#8221; makes three mistakes.</p>
<p>The first is the wrong assumption that internal structure tells you what a word means.  (I have more <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-joel-hoffman/five-ways-your-bible-tran_b_1007058.html">here</a>:  &#8220;<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-joel-hoffman/five-ways-your-bible-tran_b_1007058.html">Five Ways Your Bible Translation Distorts the Original Meaning of the Text</a>.&#8221;)  Relatedly, the root actually means &#8220;person,&#8221; not &#8220;man,&#8221; which we see from words like <i>androphonos</i> in 1 Timithy 1:9.  The word <i>phonos</i> means &#8220;murder,&#8221; but <i>androphonos</i> means &#8220;murderer,&#8221; not &#8220;murderer of men.&#8221;  (Similarly, &#8220;manslaughter&#8221; in English doesn&#8217;t only mean &#8220;slaughtering men.&#8221;)  So we have methodological and factual errors.<br />
<span id="more-3300"></span></p>
<p>More importantly, though, even if the word meant &#8220;be a man&#8221; in Greek, it&#8217;s not clear that &#8220;be a man&#8221; would be the right translation in English, because the very notion of what it means to be a man depends on culture. This is particularly relevant in light of John Piper&#8217;s <a href="http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/conference-messages/the-frank-and-manly-mr-ryle-the-value-of-a-masculine-ministry">talk advocating a masculine ministry</a>, and similar propositions supposedly founded in the text.</p>
<p>For example, we have a huge divide in the West between those cultures that adopted chivalry (mostly Western Europe) and those that did not (in the East).  In my own life, for example, I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that my instinctive reaction when a boy kicks a girl is more severe than when a girl kicks a boy.  That&#8217;s because I&#8217;m still influenced by chivalry.  This is also, I believe, why America has yet to have a female president even though places ranging from Israel to Pakistan (hardly a trailblazer for equal rights) have had female prime ministers.  Similarly, women were rulers in antiquity, as in the case of Cleopatra VII, who ruled Egypt until a few decades before Jesus was born. So for (some) Americans, &#8220;be a man&#8221; might deal with being chivalrous or even having presidential qualities, while the same was not true in antiquity.</p>
<p>Similarly, in English, &#8220;do your job as a man and marry her&#8221; makes sense in certain circumstances, yet surely Paul wasn&#8217;t telling people to go out and marry.  I know that in some cultures, it is the man&#8217;s responsibility to execute honor killings, but, again, Paul certainly wasn&#8217;t advocating vengeance.  And as yet another example, it has frequently been noted that masculinity is often associated with excess alcohol consumption, a goal Paul obviously wasn&#8217;t promoting.</p>
<p>Likewise, Yiddish has an expression to &#8220;be a <i>mensch,&#8221;</i> and mostly it means to be kind and honest.  It has little to do with physical prowess and everything to do with integrity.  Though <i>mensch</i> is better translated &#8220;person&#8221; than &#8220;man,&#8221; it demonstrates the same point that words convey different symbolic meanings in different cultures.</p>
<p>Though the verb <i>andrizomai</i> appears only once in the NT, we find it with more regularity in the LXX, frequently as the translation for the Hebrew &#8220;be strong&#8221; in the expression &#8220;be strong and courageous.&#8221;  This is why translations tend to run along the lines of &#8220;be brave,&#8221; &#8220;have courage,&#8221; etc.</p>
<p>But we should be clear.  This may or may not have had anything to do with masculinity.  (Dr. Bill Mounce <a href="http://www.koinoniablog.net/2012/02/act-like-men-1-cor-1613-monday-with-mounce-131.html">draws a similar conclusion</a>.)</p>
<p>And, more generally, I think that when we transport charged words like &#8220;man&#8221; across millennia and cultures we have to be careful not to read our modern understandings into the ancient texts.</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>Sometimes the right word is the wrong word to use when translating the Bible</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/02/20/sometimes-the-right-word-is-the-wrong-word-to-use-when-translating-the-bible/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/02/20/sometimes-the-right-word-is-the-wrong-word-to-use-when-translating-the-bible/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 14:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[translation theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[imagery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[metaphor]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[I imagine translating from some language into English, and the original text has to do with a bunch of people sitting around a room admiring a fancy new door. The obvious translation of what happens next is, &#8220;the host showed his guests the door.&#8221; The problem, though, is that &#8220;show the door&#8221; in English means [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3284&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I imagine translating from some language into English, and the original text has to do with a bunch of people sitting around a room admiring a fancy new door.  The obvious translation of what happens next is, &#8220;the host showed his guests the door.&#8221;</p>
<p><OL></p>
<p><LI>The problem, though, is that &#8220;show the door&#8221; in English means &#8220;ask to leave.&#8221;  Is &#8220;showed his guests the door&#8221; still the right translation?</p>
<p><LI>Equally, in England, to &#8220;table a motion&#8221; at a meeting means to decide to vote on it, while in the U.S. those same words mean to decide not to vote on it.  If a British essay says, &#8220;he wanted to table to the motion,&#8221; is that how an American translation should read?</p>
<p><LI>In Japan, the word for &#8220;yes&#8221; is sometimes to used in polite situations to mean &#8220;no.&#8221;  In these situations, should the translator render the Japanese <i>hai</i> (&#8220;yes&#8221;) as &#8220;yes&#8221; or as &#8220;no&#8221; in English?</p>
<p><LI>In Arabic, <i>ahalan</i> comes from the word for &#8220;family,&#8221; but it means &#8220;welcome.&#8221;  Does the English rendition of that Arabic word have to include the word &#8220;family&#8221;?</p>
<p><LI>In China, the &#8220;dragon&#8221; is a symbol of beneficent, graceful, royal power.  If a Chinese story says that, &#8220;her grandfather was always the dragon in her life,&#8221; should the English translation use the word &#8220;dragon,&#8221; even though &#8220;dragon&#8221; in English conveys a whole different set of images?</p>
<p></OL></p>
<p>These cases are all examples of how the right word can convey the wrong thing, sometimes because English has a specific meaning for what could be a general phrase (1); sometimes because both the foreign language and English have specific meanings, and they don&#8217;t match (2); sometimes because the meaning of the foreign word changes depending on context in ways that the English word doesn&#8217;t (3); sometimes because the foreign language assigns imagery to a word but English doesn&#8217;t (4); and sometimes because the foreign language assigns imagery to a word but English has different imagery (5).</p>
<p>What these have in common is that they all strike me as cases where the English translation must avoid the literal words of the foreign language.</p>
<p>Similar cases in Bible translation keep popping up:</p>
<p><OL></p>
<p><LI>Most recently, regarding the translation of the <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/02/03/why-there-might-be-no-father-or-son-in-the-trinity-in-arabic/">Greek for &#8220;son&#8221; in Arabic</a>, because Arabic might use the word &#8220;son&#8221; for different imagery than Greek did.</p>
<p><LI>Regarding <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2011/11/28/how-to-love-the-lord-your-god/">&#8220;heart&#8221; in Deuteronomy 6:5, Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27</a> <i>(levav</i> and <i>kardia),</i> because the Hebrew and Greek words conveyed different things than the English does. </p>
<p><LI> Regarding <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2011/10/21/the-lord-isnt-the-shepherd-you-think-or-dont-mess-with-the-shepherds/">shepherds</a>, and, in particular <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2011/10/21/the-lord-isnt-the-shepherd-you-think-or-dont-mess-with-the-shepherds/">Psalm 23</a>, because in Hebrew shepherds were fierce, regal, and romantic, while the same is not true in English.</p>
<p></OL></p>
<p>among many others.</p>
<p>The more general lesson, it seems to me, is that translating the words can mean mistranslating the text.</p>
<p>Comments?</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>What September 11 Might Have in Common with Translating the Trinity</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/02/09/what-september-11-might-have-in-common-with-translating-the-trinity/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/02/09/what-september-11-might-have-in-common-with-translating-the-trinity/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[translation theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Arabic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[trinity]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[I imagine a novel written in a remote location, far from western culture. It&#8217;s about the last ten days of summer and the nearing autumn. So they call the book the equivalent of &#8220;What Happened on September 11&#8243; in their local language. My question is this. Should the American version of the book be called, [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3276&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I imagine a novel written in a remote location, far from western culture.  It&#8217;s about the last ten days of summer and the nearing autumn.  So they call the book the equivalent of &#8220;What Happened on September 11&#8243; in their local language.</p>
<p>My question is this.  Should the American version of the book be called, <I>What Happened on September 11</i>?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think so, because even though September 11 is ten days before the end of summer in English, too, the phrase &#8220;September 11&#8243; has local overtones &#8212; the terrorist attacks, the wars that followed, etc. &#8212; that override the simple meaning of the phrase.</p>
<p>This is one way that a good translation of the words can be a bad translation of the text.</p>
<p>What this has to do with the Trinity is that the claim has surfaced that <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/02/03/why-there-might-be-no-father-or-son-in-the-trinity-in-arabic/">in Arabic, &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; wrongly imply sex</a>, so they&#8217;re not good translations for what we know in English as the Father and the Son.</p>
<p>Facts to support this claim about Arabic (and other languages of the Middle East) have been frustratingly difficult to come by, but even the theoretical issue, it seems to me, has been misunderstood.</p>
<p>Some people have claimed that getting rid of &#8220;Son&#8221; in Arabic is pandering, or wrongly changing the Bible to placate an audience, or giving up on theology, etc.  Maybe.  But maybe not.  Maybe &#8220;son&#8221; in Arabic is like &#8220;September 11&#8243; in English.  It has a plain meaning, but it also has overtones that destroy the original point of the text.</p>
<p>Other people have claimed simply that the job of the translator is to translate the words.  In spite of the hugely intuitive appeal of such an approach, it doesn&#8217;t work very well, because sometimes the words convey the wrong thing.</p>
<p>So even before we get a good factual answer about Arabic, I think it&#8217;s important to understand the fundamental point that it&#8217;s certainly <i>possible</i> for the literal equivalent of &#8220;son&#8221; and &#8220;father&#8221; to be the wrong way to translate the Trinity.</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>Why There Might Be No Father or Son in the Trinity in Arabic</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/02/03/why-there-might-be-no-father-or-son-in-the-trinity-in-arabic/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/02/03/why-there-might-be-no-father-or-son-in-the-trinity-in-arabic/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[translation challenge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation practice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Arabic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[trinity]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[The issue of removing &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; from Arabic Bible translations has arisen again (in The New American, for example, and Christian Today, among many others), including a petition to put the Father and the Son back into the Trinity, after decisions by Wycliffe Bible Translators, Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL), and Frontiers to replace [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3250&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue of removing &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; from Arabic Bible translations has arisen again (in <a href="http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/10730-petition-asks-bible-translators-to-return-father-and-son-to-arabic-scriptures"><I>The New American</i></a>, for example, and <a href="http://in.christiantoday.com/articles/debate-over-father-and-son-terms-in-arabic-bible-translations/7016.htm"><I>Christian Today</i></a>, among many others), including a <a href="http://www.change.org/petitions/lost-in-translation-keep-father-son-in-the-bible">petition</a> to put the Father and the Son back into the Trinity, after decisions by Wycliffe Bible Translators, Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL), and Frontiers to replace the traditional &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; with other words in Arabic.</p>
<div style="width:30%;float:right;font-size:144%;padding:10px;">&#8220;The real question is whether the Arabic words imply sex more than their Greek counterparts do.&#8221;</div>
<p> The reasoning behind not using &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; in Arabic is that (according to some) those Arabic words wrongly imply sex.  The SIL has an <a href="http://www.sil.org/translation/divine_familial_terms.htm">explantion</a> that defends using words other than &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221;:</p>
<blockquote><p>
There are some cases in which it can be shown that a word-for-word translation of these familial terms would communicate an incorrect meaning (i.e. that God had physical, sexual relations with Mary, mother of Jesus; not only does this communicate obvious wrong meaning, but can also give readers the impression that the translation is corrupt).
</p></blockquote>
<p>As I see it, we once again have two issues, a theoretical one and a factual one:</p>
<h3>The Theory</h3>
<p>The basic theoretical issue is pretty simple, though not always appreciated:  Sometimes a <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2011/04/22/what-goes-wrong-when-we-translate-the-words/">word-for-word translation detracts from the meaning of the original text</a>.  This is true for marginal words such as colors as well as for central words like &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son.&#8221;</p>
<p>To look at it differently, everyone agrees that the relationship between God the Father and God the Son is not exactly the same as the relationship between, say, Bruce Sr. and Bruce Jr.  Rather, the relationship is <i>like</i> that of a father and a son <i>in only some ways.</i>  If the Arabic words for &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; don&#8217;t match up with those ways, then the translator has to find other Arabic words that do.</p>
<h3>The Facts</h3>
<p>The factual question is whether the Arabic words for &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; differ so much from the Greek that they are inaccurate. </p>
<p>But there&#8217;s an important nuance, and here is where the published discussions that I&#8217;ve seen seem lacking.</p>
<p>The question is not whether &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; in Arabic imply sex.  Of course they do.  But they also do so in Greek (and English, for that matter).  The real question is whether the Arabic words imply sex more than their Greek counterparts do, or whether these Arabic words are less flexible in their imagery than the Greek.  And I have yet to find anyone address, let alone answer, this key question.</p>
<p>So, if you&#8217;re an Arabic expert, please weigh in on this specific question:</p>
<p><I>Do the Arabic words for &#8220;father&#8221; and &#8220;son&#8221; imply sex in ways that the original Greek did not?  What evidence do you have for this position?</i></p>
<p><b>[Update:</b> Others who have written about this topic include:  <a href="http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2012/02/wycliffe-bible-translators-accused-of.html">Archbishop Cranmer</a>, <a href="http://www.kouya.net/?p=4531">Eddie Arthur</a>, and <a href="http://betterbibles.com/2012/01/30/translation-of-divine-familial-terms/">Wayne Leman</a>.]</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>Where did Jesus come from? (Or: Is your father the father of you?)</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/01/26/where-did-jesus-come-from-or-is-your-father-the-father-of-you/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/01/26/where-did-jesus-come-from-or-is-your-father-the-father-of-you/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[translation practice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical genealogy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[CEB]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Matthew 1]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NLT]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[One of the most common expressions in Bible translations is a variation on the theme &#8220;daughter of so-and-so,&#8221; &#8220;father of so-and-so,&#8221; etc. For example, in Genesis 11:29, we learn that Milcah was the daughter of &#8220;Haran the father of Milcah and Iscah&#8221; (NRSV, along with most others). Even the new CEB, which prides itself on [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3240&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most common expressions in Bible translations is a variation on the theme &#8220;daughter of so-and-so,&#8221; &#8220;father of so-and-so,&#8221; etc.</p>
<p>For example, in Genesis 11:29, we learn that Milcah was the daughter of &#8220;Haran the father of Milcah and Iscah&#8221; (NRSV, along with most others).  Even the new CEB, which prides itself on using ordinary English, gives us &#8220;Haran, father of both Milcah and Iscah.&#8221;  (The NLT &#8220;does the genealogical math&#8221; for us:  &#8220;Milcah had a sister named Iscah.&#8221;)</p>
<p>But it seems to me that the way we translate Genesis 11:29 into English is, &#8220;Haran, Milcah and Iscah&#8217;s father.&#8221;  Somehow, standard English grammar disappears from most translations.</p>
<p>This is how the start of the New Testament (Matthew 1:2) almost always becomes, in English, &#8220;Abraham was the father of Isaac.&#8221; (Other variations try to use an English verb for the Greek one:  &#8220;Abraham fathered Isaac&#8221; [NJB] or the archaic &#8220;Abraham begat Isaac.&#8221;)</p>
<p>But again, the way we say that in English is &#8220;Abraham was Isaac&#8217;s father.&#8221;  The grammar gets tricky a few words later &#8212; &#8220;Jacob was Judah and his brothers&#8217; father&#8221; is a tad awkward &#8212; but that doesn&#8217;t seem like a good enough reason to abandon common English.</p>
<p>I understand that there&#8217;s a formal dialect of English that prefers &#8220;father of Isaac,&#8221; but I don&#8217;t that &#8220;Isaac&#8217;s father&#8221; is overly colloquial.</p>
<p>So I think the list should read:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Abraham was Isaac&#8217;s father,<br />
Isaac, Jacob&#8217;s father,<br />
Jacob, Judah and his brothers&#8217; father,<br />
Judah, Perez and Zerah&#8217;s father, with Tamar,<br />
Perez, Hezron&#8217;s father,<br />
Hezron, Ram&#8217;s father,<br />
Ram, Amminadab&#8217;s father,<br />
Amminadab, Nahshon&#8217;s father,<br />
Nahshon, Salmon&#8217;s father,<br />
Salmon, Boaz&#8217;s father, with Rahab,<br />
Boaz, Obed&#8217;s father, with Ruth,<br />
Obed, Jesse&#8217;s father,<br />
and Jesse, King David&#8217;s father.
</p></blockquote>
<p>What do you think?  Is there some merit to the standard phrasing that I&#8217;m missing?</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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		<title>What percentage of your Bible translation is accurate? (Trying again.)</title>
		<link>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/01/20/what-percentage-of-your-bible-translation-is-accurate-trying-again/</link>
		<comments>http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/01/20/what-percentage-of-your-bible-translation-is-accurate-trying-again/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Joel H.</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[translation practice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible versions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[translation]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[My last attempt to see how people understand the accuracy of their Bible translations didn&#8217;t work. I got a lot of responses, but not one answer to the basic question. So I&#8217;m trying again, with a poll: Please feel free to comment after you&#8217;ve answered the poll.<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=goddidntsaythat.com&#038;blog=9279021&#038;post=3232&#038;subd=goddidntsaythat&#038;ref=&#038;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/01/18/what-percentage-of-your-bible-translation-is-accurate/">last attempt</a> to see how people understand the accuracy of their Bible translations didn&#8217;t work.  I got a lot of responses, but not one answer to the basic question.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m trying again, with a poll:</p>
<a name="pd_a_5860379"></a><div class="PDS_Poll" id="PDI_container5860379" style="display:inline-block;"></div><div id="PD_superContainer"></div><noscript><a href="http://polldaddy.com/poll/5860379">Take Our Poll</a></noscript>
<p>Please feel free to comment after you&#8217;ve answered the poll.</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Joel H.</media:title>
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